Right then. Not sure how to describe this and not sure how to draw this so might as well make an Peach of both.
The outer sill on the 304 slips inside the bottom of the "A" post so that the transition from sill to "A" post is sort of seamless or flat. As well as the horizontal section doing this the initial vertical section also fits inside the "A" post. This is spot welded and also a small seam weld.
Picture of the drawing I did trying to show what I mean is below.
Question is how do I do this? There will need to be a cut made where the sill profile changes from horizontal to vertical but then what? The sill is about 1.8mm thick. Thanks.
Post by grumpynorthener on May 5, 2022 19:48:09 GMT
Ray - Do you have any images / pics of what was there before / what is there now or even a mock up of what you need to achieve (mock up could be done in cardboard for now)
Ray - Do you have any images / pics of what was there before / what is there now or even a mock up of what you need to achieve (mock up could be done in cardboard for now)
Are you trying to say my description and drawing are rubbish ha ha. I'll have a look at what I have in thin steel and do that in the morning. Failing that it will be a weetabix box job. Thanks Chris.
Post by grumpynorthener on May 6, 2022 6:33:52 GMT
Ok - I get the picture - It would be easier to form a stepped flange by fabrication and welding this to the sill terminus rather than cutting / attempting to form the required shape & profile on the sill panel itself (especially in 1.8mm thick steel) - So just a matter of forming a couple of 'L' shaped pieces then welding them to the sill end then dress back prior to fitting - I know its easier said than done - form your pieces first / trim & trial fit them as loose sections prior to tacking on to the sill - then trail fit the full sill - that way you can make any adjustments / alterations to the flanged end prior to removing the sill to fully weld the tacked areas up - Don't hesitate to shout up if you don't think it can be achieved in this manner or if you get stuck further into the process - Good luck
PS - It might be good idea to consume the contents of the cardboard box prior to starting
Unbelievable. After all that pratting about I found the part I thought I had accidentally thrown out.
The complete front end of the sill. The black line is where it steps in and fits inside the bottom of the A post.
Would have been easier doing that last night but the plan of attack is decided now. Absolutely chucking it down and getting flooded out of the tent so might have to abandon for today.
Ray your drawing is "spot on" ( excuse the pun ), great you've found the bit ! Just to let you know the outer sill sits on the rear panel, screwed to the centre panel ( your thick one ) with self tappers at the top edge that are covered by the kick board ( preferably counter sunk ) and 6mm flanged bolts on the bottom. Originally at the rear part where the outer sill sits on the rear panel there would have been a rubber seal about a foot long. I have not seen this on any car I have viewed but most body paint sprayers would fill this because it could be considered as a water trap and a "live joint " whereby the paint would crack. If this is what you intend I suggest you just tack weld it with very small spots just enough to hold it in place and dress it after waxing the interior box sections while they are easy to access. You may not see this in images of 304 cabriolets since the chrome strip "hides" the line.
Thanks for the info vojo. I was planning on using rivnuts for the bottom mounting mounting and will decide on that when I get to that stage. I have the rubber seal for the decorative outer sill and was hoping to use that but I see your reasoning in using a couple of small tacks to prevent any movement. The self tappers for the kick board (you mean the thin alloy trim which butts against the door seal?) would not be covered by my kick panel which might not be original so I might have to make one with a deeper outer flange. Off on my jollies soon so will have pictures posted when I have made some progress. Thanks for your interest and advice.
Rivnuts are perfect since when held in position via the self tappers* on the top edge the holes along the bottom edge for the rivnuts can be made exactly where required. Original outer sills have premade holes on slightly countersunk squared dimples ( I think 4 from memory ). The self tappers* that hold the top edge of the outer sill can be ideally countersunk so that the exterior flange of the alloy trim ( kick board ) hides them. The alloy trim ( kick board ) has self tappers that are seen. I have made replacements using anodised aluminium carpet edging- the gauge is slightly thicker but the ribbing pattern is very close.
Back from my hols and more or less recovered form a urine infection which the Tenerife doctor charged me €400 for the privilege for not sorting it out. Got my own GP on the case when I got home and was quickly sorted. Almost feel normal now.
Quick question please. Got a local fabrication company to make up the new sills. They have a sort of black anti corrosion coating on them. Does this have to be removed before applying etch primer or epoxy primer or will a scuff over be enough? Would be easy on a flat sheet with the DA but on a multiple folded panel it is a pain.
Providing the primer that the fabricator applied is adhered well then just a key over / scrub over should suffice
Thanks Chris. I don't think they have applied anything but can't ask until Monday now. I think it is just the way the steel comes from the steel stockholders. The box tubing I bought for the bracing was the same. Your hands can get quite black from it but it takes a bit of rubbing with p60 to get back to shiny steel.
Back on it but painfully slow as always. I got the step in the sill which I was asking about earlier. I was just about to do it the way Chris advised when I remembered something I had seen on Youtube. I had enough length in the sill to make a mistake and start again if necessary so nothing to lose. I made a couple of cuts on the edge of the top horizontal section, then bent that down about 70 degrees and than back up again. This had the desired effect of putting a small dip in the panel as it did not return to the original shape. The shallow vertical section received a smack (several smacks) with a brick bolster and a large hammer. As rough as but it worked.
Outer sills then had some gussets made so I could plug weld them to the centre sill. I will eventually do the same to connect the centre sill to the inner sill.
The holes in the gussets are aligned so I can pass a very long cavity wax lance through from end to end.
Centre sill lying in place. I need to mark the position of the outer sill gussets and drill the inner sill for plug welds. Might fit more gussets as no idea how many there should be.
Inner sill bent and cut to suit. The panel cut and bent back for access can either be folded back and welded (hopefully) or removed altogether and a new piece fitted. Whats left of the floor will be getting cut out and replaced.
All 3 panels clamped in place. Bit more to do including painting for corrosion protection before I work out the assembly order.
Those bracing bars are literally a pain. The number of times I have smacked my head off them is unreal. And they are not far enough apart to get my head through the gap so i have to crawl underneath and come up through the hole in the floor.
Those bracing bars are literally a pain. The number of times I have smacked my head off them is unreal.
I found that a protective baseball cap is handy when trying to get under things like this with a full complement of skin. Mine was from Aldi, I think, for about £4.99.
Nothing much to show in the way of progress yet but a few things will come together soon. Almost ready to start welding the sills but before doing that and the point of no return I had another bash at getting the door / rear wing gaps better.
I cut through the welds for the bracing and made the shell wobbly again. Ended up almost better then had a sort of brainwave / bodge moment. I welded brackets onto the bracing bars (the front of the bar was still welded to the "A" post) the used some old Churchill coil spring compressors, attached to the bracket at one end and the rear inner wing at the other end. Then it was a case of winding in the clamps a little until the panel gap was the best I could get it and at least better than before. The bracing was then welded on again.
Post by grumpynorthener on Jun 17, 2022 21:25:33 GMT
Keep on tweaking Ray - you will get there - if you can get the door gaps something like close then you can adjust / add / remove to get the gapping even on the door skin / aperture edges once you have the shell back in a rigid position