So I see why you need the braces ! Looking much better already
I'd always recommend bracing a car regardless of it being a saloon or a convertable when removing floors / sills etc for structural works - and even then it doesn't always work (ask me how I know or read on)
Post by grumpynorthener on Oct 24, 2020 7:42:23 GMT
Rear wing repair section (effectively - the sill extension) being trial fitted
The car has previously had a pair of sill & rear repair sections fitted (only quite poorly)
How not to undertake a flanged / joggled joint - the joint is facing up
Which allows water / condensation to run down the inside of the panel and the joint fills with water which in turn forms a rust trap - flange / joggled joints should always face down not up
Front edge of the sill is slightly forward to follow the bonnet alignment so I'll adjust that
Bit of support at the rear whilst making adjustments
Next problem is hanging the door - the top hinge plate has 2 stripped threads (someone has been here before) and the A post is quite weak to the effect that door when mounted is dropping on the rearward edge - the A post is full of filler around the hinge mountings - this is going to take some sorting out
Top hinge plate is inaccessible without some key hole surgery - I had to open op the A post on the inner face to access / remove the plate (lower one is readily accessible) - previous restorer bodger - had drilled the plate oversize to tap new threads for the hinge bolts which had now stripped - I resolved the problem by welding nuts to the rear of the plate - ended up doing likewise to the bottom plate too
A post next - reinforcing plate ready for welding on - the A post has already been played around with - the hinges were on spacers hence my adding of this reinforcing plate can be absorbed by just reducing the hinge spacer thickness
Welded insitu
Dressed back
Door aperture is still tight - time to add a little gentle hint in right direction
Door refitted and its as far forward as possible to the point it fouls the windscreen pillar slightly
Huge gap with the sill radius but better than it was before - 15mm when the car came in the workshop - I now have it at 12mm
Sort of getting there - this was a very tight rear aperture before the door was removed to allow for the works
My door fitting has flagged up wear in the hinges - 1mm of play in a top hinge can result in several mm of drop in the door on the rearward edge - I had already ordered a pair of hinges for the offside - I've put them to use of the nearside and will have to order another set for the offside - still my door fitting woes continue though but I'm unlikely to throw the towel in anytime soon - tune in later to discover if I win the door battle today or if I miserably fail
I would think that most Spitfire/GT6 owners will be watching your door fitting seminar to see how you get on at the door base/B post area. So many of us have the same problem with the door standing proud (in my case about 5mm) at this point.
I would think that most Spitfire/GT6 owners will be watching your door fitting seminar to see how you get on at the door base/B post area. So many of us have the same problem with the door standing proud (in my case about 5mm) at this point.
BFH?
Or maybe something a little bit more sophisticated?!
I would think that most Spitfire/GT6 owners will be watching your door fitting seminar to see how you get on at the door base/B post area. So many of us have the same problem with the door standing proud (in my case about 5mm) at this point.
Yep the vast majority of them that I have studied / looked at are all like that - many also appear to have the overwide aperture gap between the bonnet / wing & the door - anyway what you really want to know is how I'm going to correct the bottom of the door vs the B post - well sit back because you read it here first -'I'm doing nowt' - yep that's right nothing and with good reason - the car has come to me recommissioning - I've found a load of defective structural issues with the car that are getting corrected - but how far do I go - without removing the door skin on each door - undertaking some modifications to the door shell frame then fitting a new door skin - if I'm doing that I might as well sort the bubbling on the rear wheelarches, then the front arches - then maybe lift the body from the chassis and send it for dipping - then shotblast the chassis - then repaint the complete car - Lets get real - the client has a sensible budget that I need to respect - he wants a fun car that's safe & reliable - he's not going trophy hunting at a concours level with it - its just needs to a practical little sports car that's solid & presentable - and that's exactly what I will deliver - Now if was in to me for a full body restoration the problem with the doors (which are not really a problem - its just that we are critical of the 1970 factory standards for build quality and todays standards are far better) would be sorted without question
Its looking better already, are heritage panels available or have you just got random maker pattern parts?
Its a mixture some heritage - some random
But they all fit with a minimum of trimming / adjustment - a million miles better than the crap I was supplied with to repair certain Ford with some time ago
I think even with the best will in the world that larger gap in the front of the door needs to be there. Due to the clamshell bonnet design, the bonnet needs room to swing open, hence the gap. This is matched on the sill. If the lines on the sill to door gap didn't match the bonnet to door gap it would look silly
I'm just wondering what you do with waste materials, like old petrol and sanding 'dust'. I'm sure you have the correct things in place, I'm just wondering how you manage it I guess.
I'm just wondering what you do with waste materials, like old petrol and sanding 'dust'. I'm sure you have the correct things in place, I'm just wondering how you manage it I guess.
Ok - Stale petrol goes into the oil recycling cans and gets dropped off at my local MOT / service repair garage with whom I get on very well - they do likewise and it all goes into 45 gallon drums along with used engine oil - this gets collected on a regular basis by a company that do something (not sure what) with it - they also collect his old oil filters / waste brake fluid / waste antifreeze etc and it all goes off for some form of recycling - the filler / sanding dust all goes into a dust bag via a vacuum system - once full that just goes as general waste but retained within the bag - most waste in our area is now incinerated at a combined waste to heat facility - scrap metal goes to the scrap man once I have a pile along with any dead batteries and my local tyre fitter deals with any dead tyres for me - I try to recycle and within reason & dispose of waste generated by the business in a careful / considerate manner - sometimes its really difficult - its just taken me about 3 months to find someone willing to take my old fire extinguishers after I purchased new ones - the suppliers weren't interested in the slightest in disposing of the old ones
Post by grumpynorthener on Oct 25, 2020 10:18:57 GMT
Ok the door that doesn't fit the hole battle
Starting points - these are the pics of before I started
Over wide aperture gapping to allow bonnet opening clearance - but also a very unaligned door base to the front of the door
Towards the rear of the door looks ok but its far from perfect
And this is why - it would appear that most of the cars suffer this problem unless some form of correction / radical intervention has taken place
Base of the door runs out of alignment with the sill from front to back - its barely noticeable when the car is sat to the ground on its roadwheels due to the low sitting nature of the car and fact that the bottom section of the cars panelwork tapers inwards
Now the real problem - virtually none existent door aperture between the rear of the door and the rear wing
Ok - Stale petrol goes into the oil recycling cans and gets dropped off at my local MOT / service repair garage with whom I get on very well - they do likewise and it all goes into 45 gallon drums along with used engine oil - this gets collected on a regular basis by a company that do something (not sure what) with it - they also collect his old oil filters / waste brake fluid / waste antifreeze etc and it all goes off for some form of recycling - the filler / sanding dust all goes into a dust bag via a vacuum system - once full that just goes as general waste but retained within the bag - most waste in our area is now incinerated at a combined waste to heat facility - scrap metal goes to the scrap man once I have a pile along with any dead batteries and my local tyre fitter deals with any dead tyres for me - I try to recycle and within reason & dispose of waste generated by the business in a careful / considerate manner - sometimes its really difficult - its just taken me about 3 months to find someone willing to take my old fire extinguishers after I purchased new ones - the suppliers weren't interested in the slightest in disposing of the old ones
I have found that fire extinguishers are best de-pressured/set-off and emptied, plastic bits taken of put in the general recycling bin. the remaining metalwork gets weighed in with the scrap. Just take off the tops to prove they are no longer under pressure. Probably the wrong way of doing things, but it works for me.
Ok - Stale petrol goes into the oil recycling cans and gets dropped off at my local MOT / service repair garage with whom I get on very well - they do likewise and it all goes into 45 gallon drums along with used engine oil - this gets collected on a regular basis by a company that do something (not sure what) with it - they also collect his old oil filters / waste brake fluid / waste antifreeze etc and it all goes off for some form of recycling - the filler / sanding dust all goes into a dust bag via a vacuum system - once full that just goes as general waste but retained within the bag - most waste in our area is now incinerated at a combined waste to heat facility - scrap metal goes to the scrap man once I have a pile along with any dead batteries and my local tyre fitter deals with any dead tyres for me - I try to recycle and within reason & dispose of waste generated by the business in a careful / considerate manner - sometimes its really difficult - its just taken me about 3 months to find someone willing to take my old fire extinguishers after I purchased new ones - the suppliers weren't interested in the slightest in disposing of the old ones
I have found that fire extinguishers are best de-pressured/set-off and emptied, plastic bits taken of put in the general recycling bin. the remaining metalwork gets weighed in with the scrap. Just take off the tops to prove they are no longer under pressure. Probably the wrong way of doing things, but it works for me.
Id be careful with powder ones. Don't want that stuff anywhere near stuff you treasure.
I would think that most Spitfire/GT6 owners will be watching your door fitting seminar to see how you get on at the door base/B post area. So many of us have the same problem with the door standing proud (in my case about 5mm) at this point.
Yep the vast majority of them that I have studied / looked at are all like that - many also appear to have the overwide aperture gap between the bonnet / wing & the door - anyway what you really want to know is how I'm going to correct the bottom of the door vs the B post - well sit back because you read it here first -'I'm doing nowt' - yep that's right nothing and with good reason - the car has come to me recommissioning - I've found a load of defective structural issues with the car that are getting corrected - but how far do I go - without removing the door skin on each door - undertaking some modifications to the door shell frame then fitting a new door skin - if I'm doing that I might as well sort the bubbling on the rear wheelarches, then the front arches - then maybe lift the body from the chassis and send it for dipping - then shotblast the chassis - then repaint the complete car - Lets get real - the client has a sensible budget that I need to respect - he wants a fun car that's safe & reliable - he's not going trophy hunting at a concours level with it - its just needs to a practical little sports car that's solid & presentable - and that's exactly what I will deliver - Now if was in to me for a full body restoration the problem with the doors (which are not really a problem - its just that we are critical of the 1970 factory standards for build quality and todays standards are far better) would be sorted without question
This has brightened my gloomy day.
I agree entirely with the comments above. While I could take my place in the queue for Chris to to a full restoration (assuming I could stand the embarrassment of Chris's forensic evaluation of its current state), when it was done, I would not be able to justify actually driving it for worry of damage. I will have to keep learning and do what I can myself knowing that it won't be up to anything like the same standard BUT... it will be better than it was and if I do damage it, I can make good a lot of it myself.... with grateful thanks to the teacher our personal tutor.
Am i just imagining it but were spitfires even blessed with the best of gaps from the factory , let alone by the time they have been "got at" over the years?
Post by grumpynorthener on Oct 26, 2020 8:48:50 GMT
Front gapping is overwide to allow bonnet opening / closing as it travels through a arc radius being a front hinged clamshell type bonnet
Had to rework the edge of the door frame / door skin to allow non contact with the windscreen pillar
One of the issues being that the aperture edge of the rear wing had been let's say selectively smeared thickly with body filler - now removed
Better aperture gapping but still way too tight
And stepping out of line with the profiles of the sill / rear wing - but this is a common trait of the model type
Sometimes it just pays to bite the bullet and resolve the issue - I had not planned to paint the door but its the door that is the problem - its had replacement pattern door skins fitted in a previous ownership and they have not been fitted very well
Edge of door reduced by grinding back and reducing the overall width of the door - but then you have to reweld the edge of the door to secure the door skin
Invasive = Yes, Radical = Yes, Corrective = Yes
Now getting there
Adjusted the striker plate then pinned it - this locates the plate when it comes to fitting the car back up as the plate will be removed for to allow for painting of the B post
A sign of previous issues - the door frame had been contacting the striker plate with evidence clearly displayed by the chipped paint / minor surface rust
I could now recheck the new panel panels for fitting
Then bare metal the areas to be welded and apply a weld through primer
Lovely work - and I totally knew you'd have to do the door!!! 👌👍🤓
Yes - but only part of it - I cant deal with the overstepped alignment on the bottom rear edge without getting into stripping the door & fitting a new door skin - that's probably on the cards for a few years time once the owner has seen some use from the car and its back to me for a cosmetic / paint refresh
It is interesting to hear your thoughts about the door re-skim. As I think I have mentioned before, I had always thought that the problem, especially in my case, was due to the mis-alignment of either the replacement rear wing or the sills (or even badly pressed panels)which were fitted without taking the care to brace the door gap before removing the old sills. The problem only appears to start about half way along the door base and continues to the rear sill extension, giving exactly the same problem that you highlight. The near side is a much better fit, even though it got the same treatment. There have been several 'cures' that I have seen, the most 'popular' one being to split the sill about half way along under the tread plate (if fitted) and let in a fillet of steel gradually pushing out the back section of the sills and rear wing. Not for the faint-hearted and certainly not something I personally could undertake. Here is a link... forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/6985-gt6-mk3-sill-alignment/?tab=comments#comment-92232
