I've got several of these exact sponges laying around. Acquired from the local vauxhall dealer where my friend works. It was described to me as a wax protection agent. I only once tried using the stuff, but I may have done so incorrectly. It seemed to leave a wax like coating. Not that easy to wipe off?
Can you tell me a bit more about the application? My Transit and Granada are currently just clayed, washed and then waxed with meguiars gold shampoo and carnauba wax. Maybe this is a good way to protect the cars for longer?
Is this the last step or do you wax after this or does that remove part of the product?
I've got several of these exact sponges laying around. Acquired from the local vauxhall dealer where my friend works. It was described to me as a wax protection agent. I only once tried using the stuff, but I may have done so incorrectly. It seemed to leave a wax like coating. Not that easy to wipe off?
Can you tell me a bit more about the application? My Transit and Granada are currently just clayed, washed and then waxed with meguiars gold shampoo and carnauba wax. Maybe this is a good way to protect the cars for longer?
Is this the last step or do you wax after this or does that remove part of the product?
Alex - Its a paint protection system - existing waxes should be removed - panel wipe is probably the easiest way then the polymer paint protection applied - vehicle needs to be spotless before you commence - lightly moisten the sponge face then apply lightly to the paintwork - once it dries to a haze - polish off with a microfibre cloth - never apply in direct sunlight - job done - single application lasts 3 years + no requirement to apply wax treatments afterwards - just wash & dry your vehicle as normal
I've got several of these exact sponges laying around. Acquired from the local vauxhall dealer where my friend works. It was described to me as a wax protection agent. I only once tried using the stuff, but I may have done so incorrectly. It seemed to leave a wax like coating. Not that easy to wipe off?
Can you tell me a bit more about the application? My Transit and Granada are currently just clayed, washed and then waxed with meguiars gold shampoo and carnauba wax. Maybe this is a good way to protect the cars for longer?
Is this the last step or do you wax after this or does that remove part of the product?
Alex - Its a paint protection system - existing waxes should be removed - panel wipe is probably the easiest way then the polymer paint protection applied - vehicle needs to be spotless before you commence - lightly moisten the sponge face then apply lightly to the paintwork - once it dries to a haze - polish off with a microfibre cloth - never apply in direct sunlight - job done - single application lasts 3 years + no requirement to apply wax treatments afterwards - just wash & dry your vehicle as normal
Thanks for that! I'll have a think about it... Seeing as I have the stuff anyway...
Couple of questions for Chris aka Mr GN. 1) Is epoxy primer safer to use than 2K? I would be applying it to small areas at a time so would use a brush or small roller. Highly unlikely I would ever spray it. www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=188&products_id=5073 (Not in this quantity though)
2) Car is outside under a cover and this stuff does not absorb moisture! Correct??
3) When it eventually comes time to paint over it would cellulose be ok (if I sprayit myself) Otherwise it would be going into a body shop so probably 2K.
Couple of questions for Chris aka Mr GN. 1) Is epoxy primer safer to use than 2K? I would be applying it to small areas at a time so would use a brush or small roller. Highly unlikely I would ever spray it. www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=188&products_id=5073 (Not in this quantity though)
2) Car is outside under a cover and this stuff does not absorb moisture! Correct??
3) When it eventually comes time to paint over it would cellulose be ok (if I sprayit myself) Otherwise it would be going into a body shop so probably 2K.
Hi Ray - Answers in the order that you raised them
1: Epoxy primer is still a 2k product - in other words you add a hardener to it to accelerate the curing period - mixed in small batches and applied by a mini roller / brush is fine - just some general common sense health & safety that's all - gloves, mask etc - eye protection might be a good thing and undertaken in a well ventilated area
2: Correct
3: Cellulose is fine for home use - don't know if you have enough space to rig yourself up a spray tent where you could do the loose panels in batches
Thanks Chris. Will be working outside so ventilation should be good. Epoxy primer applied this year will probably not be painted over until next year so not absorbing moisture is important. Might be able to do the loose panels ( boot, bonnet, doors and front wings ) one at a time in the garage for painting. Was toying with the idea of getting one of those cheap Clarke (or similar) canvas garages when it came to painting time as the driveway is big enough. Lots of welding still to do though and worried about distortion and will the doors fit again. (More pics soon in the 304 Cabriolet thread)
Thanks Chris. Will be working outside so ventilation should be good. Epoxy primer applied this year will probably not be painted over until next year so not absorbing moisture is important. Might be able to do the loose panels ( boot, bonnet, doors and front wings ) one at a time in the garage for painting. Was toying with the idea of getting one of those cheap Clarke (or similar) canvas garages when it came to painting time as the driveway is big enough. Lots of welding still to do though and worried about distortion and will the doors fit again. (More pics soon in the 304 Cabriolet thread)
Ray - Tent idea is a good one and does work - just make sure its well anchored - you never know with the UK weather and the last thing you need is the tent doing is attempting to launch its self skywards whilst you are just applying the final coat (ask me how I know)
Ray - Tent idea is a good one and does work - just make sure its well anchored - you never know with the UK weather and the last thing you need is the tent doing is attempting to launch its self skywards whilst you are just applying the final coat (ask me how I know)
Hi Chris. This looks like a good buy although probably a bit more than I need quantity wise although I would be doing the whole car including floor pans inside and out, under the bonnet and boot lid and fuel tank etc. Is it decent gear?
Ray - Tent idea is a good one and does work - just make sure its well anchored - you never know with the UK weather and the last thing you need is the tent doing is attempting to launch its self skywards whilst you are just applying the final coat (ask me how I know)
Hi Chris. This looks like a good buy although probably a bit more than I need quantity wise although I would be doing the whole car including floor pans inside and out, under the bonnet and boot lid and fuel tank etc. Is it decent gear?
Re lift off for the tent I can imagine the scene lol.
Ray - Never heard of the brand although its manufactured by Valspar which is well recognised for its paint technology - no reason to think that it wouldn't do the job for you - you are probably going to end up mixing lots of small batches so I would suggest that you look at obtaining a pack of paint mixing cups - not only for a clean mixing receptacle that are easily disposable (rather than the real faff of attempting to clean & reuse something - believe me its like attempting to reuse a dead head gasket) but also they are marked in increments so that you can measure the ratio of hardener to primer / paint - something like these ?
I add the primer to one to a measured mark in one cup then the hardener to another cup so I can gauge the level in the cup to the increment required before adding to the primer then mixing together - depending upon the viscosity of the primer you may wish to also purchase a suitable thinner for the process - some primers are very thick and would be like spreading treacle if they went on as they came out of the can
The tent thing - cursed at the time - had to redo the panels - one fell off the stand in the process and was damaged - one of the tent support legs speared its self through a office window 20 metres away - often laugh about it now
Chris. Good advice on the mixing cups. Reuse the thinners one every time and that is 49 cups for £8.25 and no messy cleaning up.
Regarding the epoxy primer and considering how long it would be from first opening the tin to using it all would I be better buying it in smaller quantities than the amount I linked to above or would it last ok? I expect 'Jawel' can recommend a suitable thinners or do you have a specific recommendation.
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 13, 2021 20:58:27 GMT
The modern classic market has been gaining momentum for several years and its surprising as to how quickly something can become collectable - this arrived at the workshop over the weekend
Its a Honda Civic Type R - one owner from new and its just heading for 13 years old (I know outside of our 20 years & over ethos for the forum but what I'm hoping to do is go through the repair methods / materials utilised on the the newer modern classics - so apologies in advance for the newer vehicle content but I hope that you will find the content / methods of use)
Limited edition of 400 in competition white - I don't know too much about it but it has all sorts of quick bits bolted to it, Mugen limited slip diff etc - it appears very well appointed and I'm advised that it's somewhat quick
The car has had a life and the owners would like to retain it for the next 4 - 5 years - However it needs a cosmetic refresh (owners also have a very nice classic mini in their fleet alongside several classic motorbikes)
Bonnet is peppered with stone chips
Along with a few minor dents
Tops of the wings are also suffering from stone chips
Bottoms of the doors are chipped and the plastic wheelarch trims, sill skirts & front / rear bumpers are all a slightly different colour to the main body of the car (that's because these panels are supplied to the car plant pre painted by a external supplier and not painted with the main body of the car)
The car has been looked after but like any vehicle in daily use its picked up the odd graze - here's one on the rear wing / bumper wheelarch trim that's been attended to with a aerosol repair at some stage
There is virtually something on every panel with exception of the roof
Alloys need sorting too - I will update the thread daily as I work my way through the car & the processes involved - has always please post up any questions that you have up and I will get back to you with a response
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 14, 2021 21:55:30 GMT
First job was to sort the 2 piece bumper - its all plastic but with the impact to the bottom offside front corner the 2 pieces had come out of alignment - many of these type of bumpers use a interlocking clip that is all part of the bumper moulding - best way to describe the clips are that its a male tongue that slots to a female hoop - they will normally reclip together providing their have not been torn or broken by the impact
Sorted
Then a fitment / alignment check with the plastic wheelarch trim that interlocks with the front bumper
Some of the plastic housings for the clips that retain the wheelarch trims to the front wings had broken away - Replacement arch trims will be very expensive and there is a way of repairing the more minor damage to plastic trims of this type
Retaining system for plastic bumpers is pretty common to most manufactures which again is a tongue & hoop clip system - some rely on friction grip rail / clip system - if you ever unsure you can bet that by the time a model is 12 months old someone has posted a You Tube video up of how its done
Front bumper removed
And stripped of its fittings
The front crash rail is suffering from surface rust ingress
Then the headlamps removed
The UV protection to the perspex type headlamp lenses is now degrading - another few years and these will be a MOT failure - new headlamps for this car are very expensive but there is a method / process for restoring these that is very good alongside being cost effective which I shall cover at a further stage
Rear bumper removed along with its trims
Rear vertical edge of the bumper against the rear wings is retained again by a tongue & hoop type clip which is shown here in a little more detail - all fairly common to most modern production vehicles of the last 25 or so years
Offside door mirror case has taken a knock and has sustained a fracture - these are again expensive hence I will have a go at repairing it - the indicator lens is also cracked but the client has supplied a new one
So that's the car largely striped of what I need to enable the repairs to go ahead
Once I had the rear bumper removed I could see what the rattle from the rear of the car was
The alloy heat shield for the rear exhaust silencer has detached it self from its mountings with the apertures goosed
Offside rear silencer mounting has departed from the pipe too - its all repairable which is just as well - exhaust system for this model is very, very expensive - more tomorrow
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 15, 2021 20:47:18 GMT
Repairs then - it was quicker just to take the bonnet back to bare metal with the DA - quite a few dents in it - the steel utilised on outer panels in the modern market cars is very thin it does not take much to create dent damage
Some very minor dents on the front wings too
Along with a few down the sides of the car - the Type R transfers will be removed and new ones fitted once the paintwork is complete
In between curing times I repaired the clip housings on the wheelarch trims with a specialist 2 part TPA adhesive for automotive plastics
Worked my around the car and feathered back the stone chipped areas of paintwork
Whilst completing the new profiles to the bonnet & other panels
Then made a start on keying back all the areas of paint in preparation for the primer application - more tomorrow
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 16, 2021 18:32:11 GMT
Some rust ingress on the underside of the bonnet by the latch that I will sort
Bonnet is easier off the the car for painting but top tip for marking the hinge alignment is a simple use of masking tape - the lack of paint around the bolt apertures also makes realigning the bonnet upon refitting very straight forward but you cant always rely on the underside of the bolt aperture not being painted
Then masked up for the primer coats
Bonnet placed to a panel stand
All ready for primer
Applied in several coats and then dusted with a guide coat
Having had several of these (all be it the 2.2 Diesel sports) over the years as Company cars (then reliable diesel buses when i went self employed), check underneath the plastic trim that runs along the top of the windscreen) at least 2 had issues with rust/water ingress mainly due it looked like due to poorly fitted replacement windscreens, most of which was hidden...
Still have a factory spare wheel instead of the rubbish foam can system if you need one...
Having had several of these (all be it the 2.2 Diesel sports) over the years as Company cars (then reliable diesel buses when i went self employed), check underneath the plastic trim that runs along the top of the windscreen) at least 2 had issues with rust/water ingress mainly due it looked like due to poorly fitted replacement windscreens, most of which was hidden...
Still have a factory spare wheel instead of the rubbish foam can system if you need one...
Thanks - This one has very slight signs of something developing on the roof skin aperture at the top edge of the screen - but the windscreen would appear factory fitment original - I can polish up the area and inject a clear cavity wax has a prevention measure - its a clients car - pretty sure it carries a proper spare but I'll check & get back to you - Chris
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 17, 2021 17:38:12 GMT
Wet flatting for the primer - I'm using P800's - critical point I would make with wet flatting is clean / dry each panel as you progress - flatting water is difficult to clean off trims / rubber etc once its dried on
The black guide coat makes for an easy process of the flatting too - another top tip is use a primer colour range close to that of the final body colour - it makes for a much easier application of paint
Bonnet back off the vertical panel stand and placed to a horizontal stand for flatting
Pic of how effective the guide coat is when flatting
Removed the previous masking for the primer application and started again - don't underestimate how much effort it takes to obtain good detailed masking to a vehicle
Poor masking can make even the shiniest of paint finishes on a car look dire - nothing worse than paint & overspray on trims / rubbers etc
A roll of polymask is very useful stuff to have in the workshop - not just for masking either it makes great temporary dust sheets for cars - I even use it when I'm decorating the house
There's some great masking products on the market too - this self adhesive foam tape for preventing overspray traveling through door apertures
A different version of the foam edge self adhesive tape for masking apertures that are difficult to access
And a foam blending edge tape
Which is much easier that the old trick of back masking (turning masking tape back on its self) - the foam tape gives a much cleaner finish too
Post by grumpynorthener on Apr 18, 2021 17:39:45 GMT
Once treated & primed all modern cars are painted with a 2 stage system (not to be confused with a 2 pack paint system which also utilised) - The colour is applied first - for all production vehicles the basecoat will be water based - this amongst other things allows vehicle manufactures to comply with large scale environmental restrictions to prevent paint products of a high volatile organic compound being emitted to air - the water based paints are good on new panels - fine for smaller repairs but hard work on the larger jobs
I've opted to also use a 2 stage paint system but the base coat is a solvent based product where the paint density is thinned with a solvent based thinners - goes on has a wet finish
But dries to a matt
This is where using a primer within the same colour range really starts to work to your benefit - it means that you don't have to over apply the colour & build up heavy coats to attain coverage under a dark based primer or a primer that does not hold the same colour tonal values
Once the base coat is dry the clear coat / lacquer can be applied over the top - this is a 2 part / 2K product which needs to be applied with correct personal protective equipment worn